Silk - Miller Trial
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On August 14, 2002, prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, gave his opening address before Justice Philip Cummins.

Rapke said that scientific examination of glass at the scene of the shooting of the two police officers proved beyond doubt the Hyundai Bendali Debs had given his daughter, Nicole, for her 18th birthday in 1997 had been used by the killers.

He said the dying words of Sen-Constable Miller describing his killers, along with hundreds of hours of secretly taped conversations involving Mr Debs and Mr Roberts as well as the lies they told in interviews with police, proved they were the killers.

Rapke said Sergeant Silk and Senior Constable Miller were shot and killed while part of a team investigating 10 armed robberies committed by Bandali Michael Debs, 49, and Jason Joseph Roberts, 21.

Mr Rapke said Sergeant Silk was taken by surprise and shot three times as he was talking to one of the accused men.

He said Mr Debs and Mr Roberts - now accused of murdering the two police officers - were intercepted near a Moorabbin restaurant whilst preparing for another robbery.

Mr Rapke begun his address with the circumstances of the fatal stake-out.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Events of the night

Mr Rapke told the jury that on the night they were murdered, Sgt Silk and Sen-Constable Miller had been in an unmarked car watching the Silky Emperor Restaurant in Moorabbin as part of a police operation dubbed Hamada.

The aim of the operation, he said, was try to capture two armed robbers.

"The perpetrators of those robberies were the two accused, Debs and Roberts."

Mr Rapke said that just after midnight on August 16, 1998 – two armed robbers fired at least seven shots at Sen-Constable Miller and Sergeant Gary Silk.

Mr Rapke said post-mortem examinations showed the two officers were shot with bullets from a .357 Magnum and a .38 Smith and Wesson.

Sgt Silk had been shot three times by two different guns.

Sen-Constable Miller had died from a single gunshot wound.

Sgt Silk had no chance to draw his gun as he was shot four times in the head, chest and hip from a distance of less than two metres, possibly as he lay on the ground.

There was just time for his partner, Senior Constable Rod Miller, to draw his gun.

He was standing between the dark Hyundai Excel he and Silk had intercepted and their unmarked police car, its portable blue light in place on the roof.

Miller was showered with glass as a Magnum .357 bullet was fired from inside the car, lacing its interior with gunshot residue and shattering the rear window.

One bullet passed close by, narrowly missing Miller.

But another bullet entered Miller's upper chest, passed through him and exited towards the right hip.

Miller fired four shots, one striking the rear support pillar of the car, beside the back window.

At least 11 shots were fired in the quick exchange. 

Miller's four shots included the one that struck the car and two others that struck or penetrated the roller door of a nearby business.

Two police witnesses hearing a volley of gunshots in two brief bursts found Sgt Silk lying dead, his police revolver still in its pouch, flap still secured, gun unfired.

Senior Constable Miller was found 170 metres away from the shooting scene, lying on the footpath in front of the restaurant he had under surveillance.

When other police found Sen-Constable Miller, he was in so much pain he was barely able to speak.

Mr Rapke said the officer knew he was dying, but spoke through pain to describe the offenders' vehicle and one of the two men.

"He was continually repeating, 'I don't want to die, I don't want to die'," Mr Rapke said, ''but he did manage to describe his killers.''

"He knew he was dying and, through the pain, he described the offenders' vehicle as a dark-coloured Hyundai coupe or hatch, and one offender being six foot tall with dark hair and wearing a check shirt."

He said police asked how many offenders there were.

Moments before lapsing into a coma from which he did not recover, Sen-Constable Miller said: "Two . . . one on foot".

He died later that morning in hospital.

Mr Rapke said the homicide squad was called and the crime scene cordoned off and examined.

He said the Lorimer taskforce was formed to track down the killers.

The police investigation lasted until late July, 2000, when the two accused men were arrested and later charged.

Mr Rapke said the accused drove from the scene in a dark blue Hyundai vehicle belonging to Nicole Debs, Mr Debs' daughter and Mr Roberts' girlfriend.

Mr Rapke went on to describe how Sen-Constable Miller suffered a cardiac arrest before dying in hospital without regaining consciousness.

Day 1: Video evidence

The QC then began to augment his address with a slide show.

The courtroom was jolted.

The first slide was a map of the crime scene. The next was brutal in its impact.

A dark blue, unmarked police car with a blue flashing light on top parked by the side of a road.

And on the grass verge, the body of Sgt Silk, lying on his side, where he fell.

He was lying on his right side and could have been sleeping, but for a ghastly head wound. 

Mr Rapke used a thin, red laser pointer as he told what happened.

There was also a slide showing three types of bullets . . . a slide showing a dropped pen beside a body . . . bullet holes in awnings and signs . . . and bullet damage to a car.

Eleven shots in total.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Police statements of accused

Mr Rapke read from the police statement Debs and Roberts made in December 1998.

They denied any involvement in the killings and of having any knowledge of the killers.

Rapke said the pair had told a pack of lies, and demonstrably so and adopted each other's false accounts.

Mr Debs said a Hyundai owned by his daughter had been damaged in a work accident but it was revealed that police had already matched glass from its rear windscreen to samples found at the murder scene.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Glass

Rapke told the court that within hours of the investigation beginning it was known that the killers had driven a Hyundai, and that the car had lost its rear window in the incident.

An alert was placed with parts dealers to be on the lookout for sales of rear windows for Hyundai's. 

Mr Rapke said forensic examination of the glass at the murder scene showed the killers had fired at least one shot from inside a Hyundai XL X3 with a back window fitted between March 1 and April 1, 1997.

There is the broken automotive glass found at the scene, linked by the prosecution to a Hyundai Excel, owned by Nicole Debs, daughter of Bandali Debs.

Analysis suggests the glass was from a rear window shattered by a shot fired from within the car, Mr Rapke says.

Mr Rapke said police and scientific investigations into identifying Ms Debs' vehicle as the one used by the two accused on the night of the murders were meticulous, comprehensive and exhaustive.

He said police investigated all such cars that had been or were now registered in Victoria, or whose registration had been cancelled -- and even those that had come to Victoria from other states.

A scientist visited the Hyundai plant in Korea to narrow the type of Hyundai from which the glass came.

Police then investigated all Hyundai vehicles in Victoria that fitted the criteria outlined by the scientist.

All except the car owned by Ms Debs had been eliminated as the source of the glass found at the murder scene.

"As a result of that investigation, it can be confidently stated that all Hyundais in Victoria, with the exception of that owned by Nicole Debs, the daughter of the accused Debs, have been eliminated as being the source of the glass found at the murder scene in Cochranes Rd, Moorabbin," he said.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Rear window replacement

On the day of the murders, Mr Debs (left) telephoned a man who advertised Hyundai spare parts, Mr Rapke said. 

Five days later, calls were made from Mr Roberts' home address to the same advertiser and another automotive parts business.

He said Mr Roberts and Ms Debs bought a rear windscreen for a Hyundai from a Bayswater store on August 26.

Police were notified of the registration number of the car driven by a couple who purchased a rear Hyundai windscreen.

That car, a Mazda, was registered to Joanne Debs.

Lorimer detectives driving past the next day (August 27) saw Roberts and Nicole Debs cleaning the Hyundai, to which the rear window had already been fitted.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Differing reasons given for window breakage

Mr Debs later told police he accidentally smashed the rear windscreen in his daughter's car.

He denied any knowledge of the murders.

Rapke said Roberts told the salesman who supplied the window that a thief had smashed it and "stolen the sub-woofer".

Mr Rapke told the jury that Mr Debs later told police he had done so because he had "accidentally smashed" the window when using building materials.

Debs told police he broke it by closing it on some metal strips he had in the car for a tiling job. A neighbour was told it was broken by a stone thrown up by a passing truck.

Mr Rapke said Mr Debs told police he had smashed the windscreen on August 19, 1998 -- three days after the killings -- when they knew he had been asking about replacing a windscreen two days earlier.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Glass in Millers clothing

There was also glass in Rod Miller's clothing, indistinguishable from that on the road and traced to the Hyundai.

Day 1: Rapke evidence - Phone calls

Then there were the telephone calls, some hours after the shootings, from Mr Debs' home to a man advertising Hyundai parts for sale. 

August 15, 2002: Day 2

Anastasia Salamastrakis reported on 3AW that the Supreme Court heard that Debs and Roberts were trying to make the murder look it was committed by corrupt police or drug dealers.

Prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, said in his opening address that the 15 jurors would hear recorded conversations that left no doubt Mr Debs and Jason Roberts hated police with an almost unimaginable depth and passion.

Debs and Roberts had committed a crime even very hardened criminals usually avoided, prosecutor Mr Rapke told the court.

Mr Rapke said the pair murdered the two policemen out of a desperate desire to avoid detection or capture.

He said they feared their involvement in the armed robberies - carried out in a similar manner on suburban shops and restaurants over five months - would come to light and result in severe punishment.

"Thus, the need to avoid detection, the need to avoid capture, impelled the killers to murder those who stood between them and freedom."

Day 2: Secret police recordings of accused

Mr Rapke said police obtained court permission to install listening devices in houses and cars associated with Mr Debs and Mr Roberts.

He told the jury that investigators secretly recorded the two accused men between December 1999 and July 2000, when they were arrested.

On November 20, 1999, a bug was installed in the Debs family home at Narre Warren.

On December 9, another was fitted to Debs' Commodore sedan.

Four days later, a bug was installed in the Hyundai owned by Debs' oldest daughter, Nicole, and still another was placed in a house under construction in Merrijig Ave, Cranbourne. The house had been bought by Nicole Debs and Jason Roberts.

During the five months the trial could have lasted, the jury was expected to have to listen to days of recorded conversations.

Mr Rapke said the jury would be in no doubt, from conversations recorded through listening devices planted in their cars and homes, that the pair were guilty of murdering the two policemen.

Mr Rapke told the jury that on the tapes they would hear the accused talking about the murders in quite clear and unmistakable terms.

"You will hear the accused talk in terms which leave no doubt at all that each of them hated police with a depth and a passion which is almost unimaginable," Mr Rapke said.

"You will hear Debs propose that he should kill two more police officers in order to confuse and divert the investigations.

"This man discussed with two of his daughters sitting in court . . . killing two more police officers for the sole purpose of diverting the police investigation."

He said Mr Debs also proposed killing one of the police on the Lorimer taskforce investigating the police killings after bumping into him accidentally in a Berwick supermarket.

"The manner in which the accused discussed the murders . . . will leave you in no doubt at all that they were talking about the murders on the basis of first-hand personal knowledge, based upon their presence at the scene of the crime," Mr Rapke said.

Mr Rapke said that as well as taping them talking about the killing of the officers in unnervingly accurate detail, the secret listening devices also taped them gloating: "nobody can prove nothing" and that: "They've got absolutely nothing to go on".

Referring to one of the earliest recorded conversations, Mr Rapke said that on January 25, 2000, Mr Debs was taped telling his adoptive father Malik: "The first time . . . shot one of them, ch ch, in the head."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Plan to kill police

On February 11, 2000, Mr Debs allegedly told one of his three daughters, Joanne, he should kill two other police officers on the other side of Melbourne to cause the investigation to " go stupid."

Mr Debs: I'm telling you now, if this continues like this on this matter two CPs (Mr Rapke said this was one of Mr Debs' terms for police) have got to go down somewhere so the investigation goes stupid."

Joanne: Yeah but it has got to be far though.

Mr Debs: It has got to be out of this area.

Joanne: Across the other side of the city.

Mr Debs: On the other side of the city so it fucks the whole situation up and we can't go through e-tag or anything like that, back roads, and that is it.

The conversation ended, Mr Rapke said, with Mr Debs telling his daughter not to tell her mother "because your mother is fucking nosy".

Mr Rapke commented that Mr Debs "seemed to think it was easy to kill two police".

In another conversation, Mr Debs allegedly told his youngest daughter, Kylie, that: "I've got a funny feeling that another two will go down again. Another two CPs are just going to get dropped."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Deb's account of murder scene

In a tape-recorded conversation with his father, Mr Debs gave such an "unnervingly accurate" account of the shooting of Sergeant Gary Silk and Senior Constable Rodney Miller, it could only have come from someone involved in the murders, Mr Rapke said.

On February 14, 2000, Mr Debs, while speaking with his father, Malik, raised the idea of killing two more police officers, seemingly thinking it was easy by using the phrase: "You can get two, no worries."

Mr Rapke said Mr Debs on February 15, 2000, described to Malik, in detail about the murder scene. He said Bandali Debs detailed how he had driven into a restaurant car park and had been followed by police.

"What happened, they was watching inside and I just drove in and drove out and they came straight behind . . . they stopped us. As soon as that happened we went."

Mr Debs: He was on the ground firing in the air. He was on the ground . . . he just shot in the air and things went everywhere. Yeah, he didn't know what he was doing . . . Do you know where they found the other one? Long way away they were . . . When they found the other one took him to hospital, he was fucked. They don't know but the other one never got to pull his. It was still in the pouch . . . after we left they came in 30 or 40 seconds. Thirty or 40 seconds they were there. That means they had a few cars in the area.

Mr Rapke told the jury: Mr Debs' description of the death of Sgt Silk, who was killed before he could take out his gun, and Sen-Constable Miller, who was found fatally wounded about 170m away and had fired four shots, was so "unnervingly accurate . . . you must ultimately conclude that only a person who is present at the scene and involved in the murders could possibly have known what happened in the detail in which Debs recounted it to his father."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Deb's and Roberts were listening to police radio

Also on February 15, 2000: police taped Mr Roberts imitating the voice of the Intergraph operator who helped organise the "blocking off" of the crime scene.

Mr Rapke said this showed that not only were they at the murder scene, but they had been listening to police radio.

He said Mr Roberts mimicked "Block off this. Block off this", to which Mr Debs replied "Yes that area has been blocked off".

Day 2: Rapke allegations - "I kill Dees" - Debs

On February 19, 2000, Roberts was taped as telling Debs: "I kill dees."

Mr Debs replied: "Yes. I know. I'll do more than that."

Mr Rapke said when police played this to Mr Roberts, he said that by "dees" he meant police detectives, but denied he had been referring to the killing of Sgt Silk and Sen-Constable Miller.

Mr Rapke said that at various times Mr Debs and Mr Roberts dismissively commented on the police investigation.

Mr Debs was taped saying: "They think they know what they are doing but they don't." Mr Roberts replied: "I know they don't, got no idea."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - "Police investigation is backwards": Debs

May 31, 2000: In a conversation with Mr Roberts and most of the Debs family, Joanne Debs allegedly said: "The police have an idea. They think they know how it happened."

According to Mr Rapke, Mr Roberts replied: "Yeah I've seen two of their ways that they think it happened and it's fucking backwards."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Disposal of weapons

Rapke then claimed Mr Debs also told Joanne: "Those things have disappeared what have been used."

Mr Debs allegedly also said one of the "things" had been cut up and the other put in a lake. Mr Rapke said it was highly likely Mr Debs was referring to disposing of the weapons used in the police murders.

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Other diversions

At different stages, Mr Debs expressed the hope that the shooting of a policewoman in Brisbane and a raid on the St Kilda police station in Melbourne would divert Silk-Miller investigators, Mr Rapke said.

When three police were shot in Queensland in May, 2000, the bugs allegedly picked up Debs expressing the hope that the Silk-Miller murders would be attributed to the same offender.

May 11, 2000: Mr Rapke said Mr Debs even thought the discovery of drugs hidden in the St Kilda police station would help him, hoping that it might be thought corrupt police were involved in the killing.

He is taped telling Mr Roberts: "That's good, good news. That is very interesting what happened at the cop shop, very interesting. Maybe we will have a little bit of luck."

"Why is that?" Mr Rapke asked, "Surely no innocent person would want to see an important police investigation derailed by extraneous events."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Recorded conversation near car accident

Mr Rapke said one recorded conversation took place on July 7, 2000, as the accused men drove past a motor vehicle accident that police attended.

He said Mr Roberts seemed to play-act and imitate a driver pulled over by police. Mr Roberts allegedly laughed after saying: "Excuse me, yeah mate... bang, bang, suck on that, cunt."

Mr Rapke said Mr Debs replied: "I tell you what, it would be on for young and old, wouldn't it? They'd be going ballistic if it happens again."

And on July 22, his third daughter, Kylie Debs, 21, asked her father a series of questions about Cochranes Road and the crime scene, at one point asking: "Who started it?" He replied: "You don't want to know," adding later, "I've got a funny feeling that another two will go down again."

Day 2: Rapke allegations - Debs plans interview answers day before arrest

Mr Rapke said Mr Debs was taped on the day before he was arrested -- July 24, 2000 -- saying he would feign lack of interest or knowledge of the crime.

Mr Rapke said Mr Debs told his father: "They (the police) hate it. You know that one? 'I don't know, I'm not sure'."

Mr Rapke said that was exactly how Mr Debs then behaved in his interview.

Day 2: Closing

Mr Rapke told the jury that although they would only be asked to give a verdict on whether Mr Debs and Mr Roberts were guilty of murder, they could be helped by hearing evidence the pair committed 10 armed robberies in southern and south-eastern Melbourne suburbs in the months before the police were killed.

August 16, 2002: Day 3

On the fourth anniversary of the deaths of Senior-Constable Rodney Miller and Sgt Gary Silk, a jury heard for the first time how the men accused of the killings planned to fight the charges.

Defence counsels for Jason Roberts and Bendali Debs admitted that their presentation didn't have the pizzazz shown by the prosecution but firmly conveyed his opinion that the glass fragments linking their clients to the double murder were by no means proof that the men were guilty.

Chris Dane, QC, told the Supreme Court jury that he could not match the "powerful, glitzy evidence and slick combinations of evidence", referring to the Crown's opening address which finished that morning. But he said: "Anything the Crown says which points to our guilt we dispute."

Day 3: Defence case - "Police acted like Cinderella's sisters"

Cinderella, Hitler, the Monty Python film Life of Brian and Lindy Chamberlain were roped into the defence of the two men.

Anastasia Salamastrakis reported on radio 3AW that the defence told the Supreme Court that "near enough isn't good enough" and criticised police describing them as "the three ugly sisters in Cinderella."

Chris Dane rejected prosecution claims examination of the glass proved it came from Nicole Debs' car.

"This issue is something like the ugly sisters in Cinderella trying to force their feet into the princess's slipper. Near enough is not good enough," Mr Dane said.

"The ugly sisters' feet don't fit and Ben Debs is not Cinderella," Mr Dane said.

Mr Dane said the seven-month taping of Mr Debs amounted to an "illegal invasion into the privacy of this man's family".

Day 3: Defence case "Initial check of Deb's Hyudai found nothing"

An initial scientific inspection of Nicole Debs' Hyundai concluded that it was not involved in the shootings. Debs had agreed to that inspection in December, 1998.

Mr Dane criticised the prosecution's description of the initial "cursory" police check on the vehicle.

This was an attempt to rewrite history, he said.

"Why would you give a three-door, dark-blue Hyundai a cursory examination when a three-door, dark-blue Hyundai has been identified by the eyewitnesses?" he asked.

"Why would you do that when you have got two dead police officers?"

Day 3: Prosecution- Significantly larger sample taken from Hynudai in second test

Jeremy Rapke, QC said the initial tests erred because one fragment was of tinted glass, apparently from the replacement window bought on August 26, 1998. 

Rapke also said: "A police officer, who was reviewing some telephone records, identified a link which reignited police interest in Debs and Roberts."

"An examination of their telephone call charge records established an extraordinary amount of telephone contact between the two accused."

After the telephone records led police to reconsider Debs and Roberts as possible suspects, scientists re-tested the glass fragments collected from inside the Hyundai.

The court was told tests on "a significantly larger sample" could not eliminate the car from suspicion. Further testing found that the glass recovered from the murder scene and from Miller's clothing was indistinguishable from the clear glass recovered from the Hyundai's original rear window.

Police were told this first replacement window, installed by Debs, had blown out while the car was being driven. A professional windscreen service had fitted another replacement in September, 1998.

Tests also found gunshot residue in the car that matched traces in Miller's clothing, bullet damage to the rear pillar and bullet fragments in the car.

Day 3: Defence case - Exhaustive efforts made to make glass match

Chris Dane criticised the police investigation in the case, suggesting exhaustive efforts were made to show that glass from the murder scene came from a car similar to one owned by Mr Debs' daughter.

Day 3: Defence case - Most insignificant actions used as evidence

Mr Danes said police looked at anything Mr Debs did as a clue.

He said investigators who treated even the most insignificant actions of his client as if it was evidence in their investigation reminded him of the gullible crowd in Monty Python's Life of Brian who even held up one of Brian's thongs as proof he was the messiah.

Mr Dane said the taping as well as deceptive press releases issued to provoke Mr Debs and Mr Roberts showed a belief "the ends justified the means - the same attitude employed by a man called Hitler".

Day 3: Defence case - Clients not at Moorabbin

Defence denied their clients were at Moorabbin when the officers were gunned down.

Mr Dane said it was disputed that Mr Debs was at the murder scene. He said no witnesses would give evidence that Mr Debs was there.

Ian Hill, for Roberts, said that a witness who identified Roberts as one of the armed robbers did not do so until 19 months after the event.

Mr Hill said the defence would show that Mr Roberts had been telling the truth when he told police: "I was not there. I did not shoot the police".

Police on surveillance at the scene, who saw the shooting from 150 metres away, saw only one offender, he said.

The two other police officers who were nearby and saw what was happening described a man at the murder scene who Mr Dane said was later seen in St Kilda by another witness.

Day 3: Defence case - Man on foot?

Mr Dane said the dying words of Sen-Constable Miller to a policeman who asked him about his killers -- "two ... one on foot" - also did not back the prosecution's case that his killers were both in Nicole Debs' car.

"Who is this person on foot? Where did he come from? Where did he go?" Mr Dane asked.

Day 3: Defence case - Man cleaning damaged Hyundai in St Kilda?

The prosecution was not calling a witness, who saw the man nervously wiping down a Hyundai car with a broken window, Mr Dane said. He said the sighting did not fit the prosecution scheme and Mr Debs was being put in the man's place.

He said one person who was seen near the scene of the crime was later seen in Fitzroy St, St Kilda, "nervously wiping down a four-door Hyundai" with a broken window. But he said the prosecution were not calling the witness who saw this person because "it doesn't fit".

Day 3: Defence case - Robbery involvement denied

Mr Hill said his client denied he had committed any of the 10 armed robberies police claim he and Mr Debs committed in the months before the shooting.

Mr Dane said the jury would be given evidence about the armed robberies, but was not invited to deliver verdicts against the accused. 

Day 3: Defence case - Police investigation told to 'focus on accused'

Responding to the crown's opening address, Chris Dane QC, for Debs, told the jury the taskforce formed to investigate the murders was directed to focus on his client.

Dane said that Debs would only have to have a bet and the police would look at the name of the horse and call it a clue.

Day 3: Defence case - Meanings of taped conversations disputed

Mr Hill said disputes would exist regarding tape recordings made from police listening devices. The disputes would be about what was said, or the true meaning or implication of what was said. He urged the jury to be fair and impartial.

"What we will do is demonstrate (Mr Roberts') position through the evidence, through cross-examination and, finally, through reasoned argument and reasoned submissions to you at the end of the case," he said.

Mr Dane said the defence would also be strongly disputing both what the prosecution claimed was recorded on the tapes or what the true meanings and implications were of what was recorded.

Dane said that by the time the accused's conversations were taped, there had been a great deal of media coverage about the shootings and even a book published on the subject. "A knowledge of what took place can be spelt out of books and TV and newspapers," Dane said.

He said the media saturation about the case since August, 1998, was the most massive since Lindy Chamberlain. 

Day 3: Defence case - Disinformation

Danes argued that in order to promote conversation about the killings among the suspects, the Lorimer taskforce released misinformation about the investigation.

On May 29, 2000, police said they had been contacted by an anonymous eyewitness to the shootings. 

On May 31, allegedly in a conversation with his co-accused and two of his daughters, Joanne and Nicole, Debs was dismissive of the eyewitness claim, saying: "It's all bullshit . . . No one was there but us."

Day 3: Defence case - Closing plea to jurors

Ian Hill QC, for Roberts told the jury that all they'd heard were allegations, suggestion and theory and implored them to be impartial in their deliberations.

Ian Hill said his client was just 17 when first interviewed by police, but maintained his innocence throughout lengthy questioning.

Mr Dane warned the jury that it was most important to keep an open mind.

Just because it was an "awful crime", it would be just as bad as the crime itself if the wrong man was convicted of doing it.

He said that had happened in the past, especially in cases which involved public outrage at the crime and much expert evidence.

He warned the jury against being swayed by the" massive media saturation", urging them to carefully weigh all the evidence.

Mr Dane said: "You have heard a very detailed presentation of the Crown case and you can see who the underdog is."

Mr Dane told the jury they would have to decide beyond reasonable doubt whether there were two shooters, whether "Jason Roberts was even there" and whether he was a shooter.

August 19, 2002: Day 4 of trial

Day 4: - Jury visits murder scenes

Members of the 15-member panel of jurors were taken to the scene of the crime on a busy industrial Moorabbin road.

In court, before leaving for the shooting site, Justice Philip Cummins explained to the jurors that viewing the scene was not a reconstruction or re-enactment and was not evidence.

"A view does assist you to get a layout of an area, which better enables you to follow the evidence here in court," Justice Cummins said.

They walked and watched for almost 40 minutes.

The jury saw the Moorabbin restaurant that he and Sergeant Gary Silk were observing on the night the two officers were killed.

Jurors were also led to an intersection where two other officers were said to have observed the general scene involving officers Silk and Miller in the early minutes of August 16, 1998.

The accused were excused from the viewing.

The jurors saw the grassy footpath outside the Super Finish Body Repairs on Cochranes Rd where Sgt Silk died.

Justice Philip Cummins pointed out to the jury that a For Sale sign that the prosecution said was hit by another bullet was no longer there.

The jury also saw where the fatally wounded Sen-Constable Miller fell unconscious.

Jurors were given photographs, one showing where the body of Senior Constable Miller lay.

August 20, 2002: Day 5 of trial

Day 5: - Officers describe murder scene

Two police officers described the distress of a colleague who shook and trembled at the scene of the Silk-Miller murders.

On the first day of evidence in an expected five-month trial, jurors heard police came from all directions early on August 16, 1998, when a radio message was broadcast that an officer had been shot and another was missing.

Day 5: Evidence from witnesses - Sgt Wise

The first witness, Sgt Mark Wise, who was also part of the Hamada operation, told the court that when he arrived about 12.25am -- minutes after hearing the call for help -- he saw Sgt Silk on the ground.

"I noticed an injury around . . . on his head. He was, had been bleeding profusely from it," Sgt Wise said. 

Day 5: Evidence from witnesses - Former Sgt Pratt

David Pratt, an army captain who was then a police sergeant, told the court he raced at about 200km/h to get to Cochranes Rd after hearing that "a member was down, shot to the head".

He said ambulance officers tried to take a pulse from the body of Sergeant Gary Silk, who was lying on the ground.

A search began for Senior Constable Rodney Miller, who could not be found initially.

He said when he arrived he saw Sgt Silk lying on the ground, and asked: "Is he dead or alive?"

He realised Sgt Silk was dead when he saw a police officer bending over the body and then quickly walking off.

Capt Pratt said he had ordered a line search of a nearby vacant block with high grass to try to find Sen-Constable Miller. He was found some time later.

Cross-examined by Mr Debs' barrister, Chris Dane, QC, Capt Pratt agreed that the first description of the killer's car that he had broadcast was of a dark, silver-rimmed Corolla.

Day 5: Evidence from witnesses - Senior-Cons Dodemaide and Sgt Jorgensen

Sen-Constable Tina Dodemaide said she and her police partner at the time, Sergeant Michael Jorgensen were involved in surveillance of a restaurant as part of the police operation concerning the armed robberies. She said they left for Cochranes Road after hearing a call over police radio.

Senior Constable Dodemaide told the court that the police officer who announced the shooting over the radio was extremely distressed.

"The nature (of the announcement) was a member, extremely distressed, yelling into the radio that shots had been fired in Cochranes Rd, a member was down," she said.

When she arrived minutes later she noticed blue flashing police lights, Sgt Silk lying on the roadside, and an apparently overcome policeman -- Sen-Constable Frank Bendeich -- who had seen the shooting.

"He was resting against his vehicle and physically trembling," she said, "the members who were there were all extremely distressed."

Dodemaide said she did not approach Sergeant Silk's body.

Sergeant Jorgensen also described an officer squatting near the back of a car and said the policeman was visibly shaking and trembling. "His head, hands, everything (about him) was shaking," he said.

He said he knew the officer as Frank Bendeich who, the jury heard, was near the scene of the shooting when it occurred.

Sergeant Jorgensen said at the scene he received a description of a dark blue vehicle and a male suspect with long black hair and facial growth, and wearing a blue checked shirt and jeans.

August 21, 2002: Day 6 of trial

Day 6: Police tapes played to jury

A recording of a police radio message, with an officer relaying information from a dying colleague urging a search for two men, was played to the murder trial.

The trial jury and Justice Philip Cummins heard a 20-minute Intergraph tape of police communications recorded when Sergeant Silk's body was found. 

The widow of Rod Miller, Carmel Miller broke down crying, burying her head in her hands, as she listened to the Intergraph tape of a police officer announcing the discovery of her fatally wounded husband.

Police are heard desperately calling for a helicopter to take their stricken colleague to hospital. But Sen-Constable Miller lapsed into unconsciousness soon after giving his descriptions.

At one point, the Intergraph operator urged: "The units, we're all crossing over each other. Let's take it a little bit calmer at this stage."

Day 6: Police tapes - Sgt Pratt

The jury heard one officer, Sergeant David Pratt, first describe over the radio his discovery of the body of Sgt Silk.

Using the call sign Moorabbin 406, Sergeant Pratt reported shortly after 12.25am he was "with a (police) member down, shot to the head".

After telling the operator he and his partner were part of an armed robbery unit, Mr Pratt said: "We need an ambulance, urgent and we're missing another member. We're trying to find out what's going on."

Later, he told the operator a search had begun for the missing officer - Senior Constable Miller - and was asked if the injured policeman was conscious and breathing. Mr Pratt replied: "I would say most likely deceased".

Day 6: Police tapes - Intergraph

The Intergraph operator then relayed messages from other officers about searches, police in the area and proposed roadblocks. One police officer - identified as Cheltenham 206 - said the missing officer had been found on Warrigal Road.

"He's been shot twice, once in the chest and once in the stomach. He said there's two offenders, there's two on foot . . . and the job is not that old. He said it's only a couple of minutes," the officer said.

About 12 minutes after the broadcast started, Mr Pratt confirmed Sergeant Silk was dead. He said the ambulance had gone to Senior Constable Miller.

Almost eight minutes after that message, another officer reported the ambulance had met a MICA emergency unit and Senior Constable Miller was being taken to hospital.

Day 6: Police tapes - Unnamed Officer

A little later another unnamed police officer radios in to say: "We've found the second member, he has been shot in the stomach, he's about 100 metres south of Cochranes Road on Warragul Road - and he's conscious at the moment and breathing."

The officer went on: "He (Sen Con Miller) said there's two offenders, there's two on foot ... at this stage no idea of direction or travel from here."

He added: "And the job is not that old, he (Sen Con Miller) said it's only a couple of minutes."

Day 6: Witness - Jeffrey Dean

A witness, Jeffrey Dean, 35, told the court that he drove a stolen Honda Civic into the restaurant car-park - just before the shootings - intending to break into cars.

Dean said he was out on the night of killings, breaking and entering cars and taking items including money and credit cards.

But he said he drove off when he spotted a number plate on an unmarked car which he recognised as a police number plate.

Mr Dean said he started to panic when he saw the officers, drove out of the car park, and later accelerated after seeing the Commodore following him. He said his car flew through the air over a gutter and he "floored it" to leave the scene.

Dean said he was "freaking out" and really "went to pieces" after realising the next day that the two police officers who had chased him at Cochranes Road, Moorabbin, had been shot. Mr Dean said "it was not looking good" when he realised police were looking for a dark blue vehicle similar to the stolen car he had driven near the shooting scene.

He said he used a scanner to monitor police communications from his Frankston home after earlier speeding from Cochranes Road. He said he heard over the scanner that one or two shots had been fired. He said "there was a bit of panic and stuff going on" in the broadcast.

The court heard Mr Dean was arrested 3 months later but in his opening address, Crown prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, told the court extensive police investigations had eliminated Dean as a suspect.

Mr Dean told the court he felt traumatised because he feared he would be wrongly accused of the murders.

Dean, an unemployed labourer, told the court that he "lay low" because he thought the police would accuse him of the shootings.

Mr Dean agreed with Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, that he was "stone-cold innocent" of the shootings, but panicked because he was in a "hot" car. He said he could have cleared his name, but he never went to the police. Instead, he cleaned the car twice and left it in Carlton.

Mr Dean said he was told later he had been a suspect for the murders, but he was never charged. 

Deans told the court that it was "not in his nature" to go to police even if he was innocent.

August 22, 2002: Day 7 of trial

Day 7: Witness - Stephen Price

Stephen Price told the jury he and two friends were driving along Cochranes Rd Moorabbin just after midnight on August 16, 1998,  when one of his passengers said "oh no he's got a gun", and quickly added "quick, let's get out of here!"

Mr Price said the tone of his friends voice made him panic and he sped off without looking back.

Mr Price said the windows of his car were closed, and he heard no outside noises. He said he and the couple had left the Elvis concert at the Springvale Town Hall about 12.10am.

Day 7: Witness - Kim Connell

Receptionist Kimberley Connell told the jury she saw a man holding a small gun with both hands at the murder scene. She was returning from an Elvis revival concert as a passenger of Price's.

The court heard the gunman was standing near two cars, one with a flashing blue light.

Ms Connell twice demonstrated the gunman's stance as she stood in the Supreme Court witness box.

Ms Connell told a jury she was travelling home with her husband and another man.

She said said she told her husband, Steven Sculli, and the driver of the car in which she was travelling, Stephen Price: "There's a man with a gun."

Later, during cross-examination by defence counsel Chris Dane, QC, Ms Connell said the man's arms were outstretched and pointing slightly down. She said he stood straight, with his legs apart, looking down in the direction of the gun.

Ms Connell said she believed the gunman was wearing a light-coloured shirt and had a skinny or medium build.

Moorabbin resident Betty Pozingus gave evidence that she heard sounds or cracks about midnight on the night of August 15, 1998.

Mrs Pozingus said she heard a bang, three more cracks shortly after that, then a slight pause and another sound.

When asked by Mr Kidd if she believed the sounds were gunfire, she said: "Well, they sounded like gunfire to me."

Day 7: Witness - Ian Burgoyne

Ian Burgoyne, a patron at the Silky Emperor restaurant at Moorabbin the same night, said that while dining he saw between 10 and 50 late-model cars moving about across Warrigal Road in the car park of a hardware warehouse.

Later, as he and others were leaving the restaurant, he told a dinner companion he believed two men in a late-model vehicle were police.

Day 7: Witness - Man smoking bongs

He was woken by what he thought was a car backfiring four to six times. "I just sat up, looked out and didn't take any notice of it and just laid back and went to sleep," Mr Casey said.

He said later he was woken again, this time by a police helicopter shining a spotlight "on me and around me".

"Nothing really happened – I just stayed there for an hour or two," Mr Casey said.

"I just stayed there wondering what was going on."

August 23, 2002: Day 8 of trial

"Debs was my tiler" - Silky Emperor owner.

The owner of the restaurant which police believe was about to be robbed by two accused murderers told the court that one worked at his establishment prior to the robbery.

Andrew Ong, the owner of Moorabbin's Silk Emperor Restaurant said he believed Bendali Debs had been contracted as a tiler and worked at the restaurant in 1995.

During cross-examination by Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, Mr Ong agreed Mr Debs had performed tiling work for him at the restaurant in 1995 and at a house he then owned on Phillip Island.

Mr Ong said the night of the shooting he heard what he thought was backfiring, then saw a man a few minutes after.

He saw one man lying on the ground "screaming for help" and holding what Mr Ong believed to be a pistol.

He said police arrived three to five minutes after he dialled 000 to report the wounded man. Staff did not go downstairs and stayed away from the windows because the man had the gun.

Ping Hong Chan, a waiter at the restaurant, said it appeared the man on the ground, who was holding a small gun, was in pain.

He said the man tried to raise his hand at passing traffic.

Kwok Tim Louie, formerly a waiter at the restaurant, said he at first thought the man might have been a drunk customer.

He said: "Everybody said, 'Look, he('s) holding a gun', and then the boss call(ed) police."

Later in the day, the 15-member jury saw a videotaped recording of the crime scene, which included footage of Sergeant Silk, whose body lay on grass by the side of the road.

Justice Philip Cummins told the jurors some parts of the video showed graphic close-ups of Sergeant Silk's body.

As the video was being played, prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, agreed some segments were filmed at 1.30am on the day of the shootings, and others at 8.30am that day.

August 26, 2002: Day 9 of trial

Day 9: Evidence from police officer - Sherren

Early on August 16, 1998, Sen Con Sherren and police partner Senior Constable Frank Bendeich drove at walking pace past the vehicle occupied by Sergeant Gary Silk and Senior Constable Rodney Miller.

Miller and Silk had parked in Cochranes Road, behind a car that had been intercepted after driving from a restaurant car park.

Senior Constable Sherren told the jury that when his vehicle passed, Sergeant Silk was talking to the driver of the intercepted car and Senior Constable Miller was at the rear of it.

"I formed the opinion... that everything was fine, due to the body language of the members and the body language of the driver. Everything appeared to be correct," he said. The two officers continued on.

Day 9: Police took up vantage point 100m from shooting

After taking up a vantage point in nearby Capella Crescent, Senior Constable Sherren saw silhouettes of Sergeant Silk and the driver. Moments later, he heard the first volley of four shots.

He told the jury the shots sounded like they came from different guns, and said he heard another group of three or four shots after making a call on police radio.

Day 9: "We were fumbling around with protective vests" - Sherren

He believed he and Senior Constable Bendeich might have been under fire as well, so he went to the back of their vehicle, about 100 metres from the shooting, and tried unsuccessfully to get protective jackets from the boot. 

Sen-Det Sherren said he called "Shots fired, shots fired" over the radio and popped the car boot to get the bullet-proof vests.

He said while they were trying to get the vests he heard two more volleys of about six or seven shots.

Seeing the car drive off, he gave up on the vests, radioed the car's direction of travel and raced to help Sgt Silk and Sen-Constable Miller.

"We were still fumbling around . . . with the vests," he said.

"It seemed pointless and fruitless: they were too hard to get out of the packaging, too awkward to try to put them on."

Day 9: "We thought they might have a go at us" - Sherren

"As the vehicle came down towards our location... I had the belief they were coming round... to have a go at us," he said.

He said that after the car left, he and Senior Constable Bendeich, holding firearms and a torch, found Sergeant Silk's body.

Day 9: "The only issue was the welfare of my colleagues" - Sherren

During cross-examination by defence counsel Chris Dane, QC, Senior Constable Sherren said he could not "put a time" on the duration of the incident: "It is like a car accident. Everything can be slowed down like a slow-motion ballet or sped up."

He told Mr Dane he believed an officer had been shot and the only issue for him was the welfare of his colleagues.

Mr Dane asked if it had occurred to Senior Constable Sherren to pursue the suspect car. He replied: "There were a number of things going through my mind but the (police) members' welfare was the only issue which I was going to act on."

Day 9: "Only one person in suspect car" - Sherren

Sen-Det Sherren acknowledged he had seen only one person in the car.

Day 9: Sherren fails to identify accused

The jury heard that Sen-Det Sherren had been unable to identify either accused man from photographs or a video parade.

(Evidence from police officer - Frank Bendeich)

Day 10: Bendeich saw suspect

After driving past the other officers and parking in a nearby crescent, Bendeich said he saw muzzle flashes and heard six to 10 gunshots.

Bendeich told the Supreme Court he knew there had been a gunfight but hoped the circumstances were not as serious as they appeared.

He said he had feared for his life. He and partner Senior Detective Darren Sherren fumbled for bullet-proof vests and hid behind their car until the dark car had gone by.

They then raced to help.

Bendeich said he decided to go to the injured officer's aid rather chase the suspect vehicle because it was his belief' "you always look after your mates."

"I just had to go back and find out . . . whether they were alright."

Sen-Constable Bendeich said that at first he could not find either man, but, "as I was walking back towards where the cars had been . . . I found Sgt Silk lying on the nature strip. I checked his pulse."

Asked by prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, what he found, he replied in little above a whisper: "He didn't have a pulse . . . he was dead."

He said he went into shock on discovering Gary Silk's body and then sat down next to a car.

He said he was in such a state of shock he left the search for Sen-Constable Miller to other police.

Day 10: Officers ignored police rules - Defence

Channel 10 news reported that Chris Dane, QC, for the defence criticised officers Sherren and Bendeich for ignoring police rules.

Dane said the officers failed to call in the fact that Silk and Miller had pulled over two suspects.

Day 10: Computer image of suspect

The jury saw a computer-created image of the unshaven slim man with shoulder-length black hair and a "druggy look" that Sen-Constable Bendeich said he had seen talking to Sgt Silk moments before the shooting.

The image was made under instructions from Senior Constable Bendeich who said the image was about 70 per cent of a likeness of a man he saw.

Day 10: Bendeich could not identify accused

The jury heard he had failed to identify either of the accused as that man.

The jury heard Bendeich did not nominate Mr Debs or Mr Roberts from photographs and a videotape he was shown of several men. 

He agreed he had been asked if he could identify the person he saw at Cochranes Road or someone resembling him.

August 28 - Day 11

Day 11: Evidence from Sen-Constable Gardner

Sen-Constable Bradley Gardner, the first officer to find Sen-Constable Miller -- about 12.30am -- told of comforting his shot colleague.

Senior Constable Gardner said he and police partner Senior Constable Colin Clarke arrived at the scene after hearing an urgent call on police radio that one (police) member was down and another missing.

Gardner told the court he had heard the call of "help me, help me" when putting out "witches' hats" to stop cars turning from Warrigal Rd into Cochranes Rd, Moorabbin.

He said he and Senior Constable Clarke were heading on foot down Warrigal Road, when his colleague said "Listen", and started running. Senior Constable Clarke gave evidence that he heard a voice calling, "Help me", and he responded with, "Where are you?" and "Keep calling".

About 10 minutes earlier a crime scene had been set up after the body of Sen-Constable Miller's partner, Sgt Gary Silk was found by Cochranes Rd.

Sen Constable Gardner said he later learnt the person he found on a footpath was Senior Constable Miller. 

Senior Constable Gardner said he cradled the head of Rod Miller and held his hand while another policeman called on radio for an ambulance.

Sen-Constable Miller was transferred from one ambulance into a MICA unit because of his condition.

Senior Constable Gardner said his colleague was conscious when transferred to the MICA ambulance, but paramedics working on him there said he had a cardiac arrest.

"He didn't respond or say anything when he got into the second ambulance," Sen-Constable Gardner said.

Senior Constable Gardner said Senior Constable Miller told police at the scene he had fired three or four shots.

Day 11: Evidence form Sen-Constable Colin Clarke

On hearing calls for help, Sen-Constable Colin Clarke ran down Warrigal Rd calling on the person to keep calling out. He found Sen-Constable Miller outside the restaurant he and Sgt Silk had been staking out.

Sen-Constable Clarke said he saw a police revolver at Senior Constable Miller's feet.

He asked Senior Constable Miller if he had been hit, and saw two holes in the left side of his chest and in the right side of his waist.

Just after he radioed that he had found the "missing member", about six to 10 officers arrived and tried to comfort Sen-Constable Miller.

Shortly before he was asked questions, Senior Constable Miller said: "Help me, help me. Don't let me die."

Day 11: Miller tells Gardner and Clarke -"Two.... one on foot

Both Sen-Constable Clarke and Sen-Constable Gardner said that when asked how many offenders there had been, Sen-Constable Miller had replied: "Two, two," pausing to add: "One on foot."

Under cross-examination by barristers for the two men accused of the killings, Sen-Constable Clarke acknowledged that this wasn't in his notes made at the time or in his first statement to police.

He had made a note at the time Sen-Constable Miller made the statement but acknowledged it was illegible. Clarke confirmed he remembered Senior Constable Miller used the word "two".

Day 12 - August 29, 2002

Day 12: Evidence from former Sen-Constable Glenn Pullin

Dying policeman Rodney Miller knew his partner Gary Silk was dead shortly after they were shot while on duty in Moorabbin, the jury heard.

Former Senior Constable Glenn Pullin said he heard Senior Constable Miller say: "Silky's dead, Silky's dead" as he lay wounded on the footpath near Warrigal Road.

Mr Pullin said Senior Constable Miller was in pain and afraid when he saw him.

He said he picked up Senior Constable Miller's revolver, which was on the ground near his feet, and checked to see if it had fired any shots.

Mr Pullin said it appeared four had been fired. He said he then asked Senior Constable Miller if he had hit whoever shot him. Senior Constable Miller replied: "I don't think so."

Mr Pullin said he was sitting on the ground and talking to Senior Constable Miller, who said he did not want to die.

"Most of my conversation was along the lines of 'It's all right. You're not going to die. If you were going to die, you'd be dead by now'," he said.

During cross-examination by Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, Mr Pullin agreed he was not a crime scene investigator.

He said he picked up the revolver to see if it had been fired because it might have meant police were then looking for wounded offenders or cars with bullet holes in them.

Day 12 - Evidence from Sen-Constable Lou Gerardi

Detective Lou Gerardi told the court that Sen-Constable Miller was in pain and had to be held tightly to prevent him thrashing about.

"We tried to keep him still but he called out to let go of his arm, which I did," Sen-Det Gerardi said.

"I then saw that he became unconscious. I held him as tight as I could. I shook him, told him to wake up, open his eyes. Thankfully, he did.

"His body temperature was really cold. He had lost a lot of colour in his face and his skin was cold and clammy to touch.

"I'm not a medical practitioner . . . but I do know he was going into shock.

"I then removed my jacket and tried to keep him warm as best I could."

Sen-Det Gerardi said he told Sen-Constable Miller: "Hang in there. The ambulance is on the way. You've made it".

But Sen-Constable Miller had a heart attack during the ambulance trip and died during emergency surgery at the Monash Medical Centre a short time later.

August 30, 2002 - Day 13

Day 13: Evidence from Sen-Constables Poke and Thwaites

Senior Constable Graham Thwaites said that Rod Miller had called on fellow police to "Get them cunts" as he urged officers who came to his aid to chase the shooters.

Senior Constable Helen Poke wiped away tears as she told how she had tried to comfort the mortally wounded Miller.

She said she had told him it would "be alright."

Sen-Constable Poke broke down as she told the jury she heard Sen-Constable Miller say: "Get them. I'm fucked".

Sen-Constable Poke also said that Sen-Constable Miller had repeatedly said: "Two, one on foot....six foot, dark hair, check shirt, dark HYUNDAI."

September 2, 2002 - Day 14

Day 14: Evidence from pathologist

Police Sergeant Gary Silk might have been on the ground when he was shot behind the ear, the Supreme Court jury heard.

Pathologist Shelly Robertson said Sergeant Silk died from gunshot wounds to the head, chest and pelvis. She said it was likely he was lying down when he was shot in the head, possibly from 30 or 40 centimetres. She said he would have lost consciousness immediately after the head injury and died within seconds.

Dr Robertson used a teaching-aid skeleton in court to demonstrate her evidence about the bullets in Sergeant Silk's body. She said the chest injury would have been serious enough to cause death through blood loss in the absence of the other wounds.

She told junior prosecuting counsel Peter Kidd that Senior Constable Miller died, despite emergency surgery, primarily from blood loss after being shot on the left side of the chest.

She agreed with Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, that she did not know the order in which shots were delivered to Sergeant Silk. During cross-examination, she said it was possible he was shot in the head while standing.

September 3, 2002: Day 15

Day 15: Police dog tracked scent

A police dog tracked a fresh human scent just after two officers were gunned down, the jury heard.

The four-year-old Rottweiler led his handler, Senior-Constable John-Peter Murray, under three fences, apparently tracking a scent but never reaching its source.

Sen-Constable Murray said he believed Gus could distinguish the scents of innocent passers-by and offenders.

"Actual offenders . . . have an adrenalin rush . . . that the dog actually tracks a lot better and is more excited . . . to just a member of the public," he said.

Asked about Gus's intensity while following the scent, Sen-Constable Murray said: "I believe the track was fresh."

Day 15: TV cameraman finds bullet casing next day

The court heard that the day after the shooting, a television cameraman found a spent bullet casing while filming people putting flowers at the scene.

Christopher McHattie said that while he was filming he noticed a "shiny object in the grass" and called over the journalist who was with him.

"We bent down to give it a flick and realised it was what looked like a spent bullet casing," Mr McHattie said.

September 9, 2002: - Glass experts cross-examined

The car belonging to the daughter of a man accused in the Silk-Miller shootings was initially excluded from the investigation due to a scientist's error of judgment almost derailing the murder investigation, the Supreme Court heard.

September 9, 2002: - Evidence from forensic scientist

Forensic scientist Peter Ross, a team leader at the Victoria Forensic Science Centre, said one of his juniors, fellow scientist Edward Kennedy-Ripon had examined a small amount of glass from the Hyundai Excel of Nicole Debs.

After the first examination, Mr Kennedy-Ripon concluded it was unlikely the glass from Ms Debs' vehicle had the same origin as glass found at Cochranes Road, Moorabbin, the shooting scene.

But Mr Ross said that Mr Kennedy-Rippon had wrongly excluded the Deb's Hyundai.

He (Ross) said a later and more extensive examination by Mr Kennedy-Ripon indicated there were two different sources of glass in the car and one did match those found on the clothing of Rod Miller. (ABC TV NEWS).

"I was very concerned that an initial examination had excluded the glass and a subsequent examination had included the glass. And this is obviously a conflict situation, which needed to be sorted out," he said.

Mr Ross concluded that his junior had not examined enough particles.

Mr Ross told prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, that he concluded, after performing an analysis, that the Cochranes Road glass did come from Ms Debs' blue Hyundai.

He said he could not differentiate between examination results for the Cochranes Road glass, the Hyundai glass and glass recovered from the jeans and jacket of Senior Constable Rodney Miller.

Mr Ross said Mr Kennedy-Ripon at first analysed a small number of fragments from the car and Cochranes Road.

He said there was a small difference in results, which Mr Kennedy regarded as significant. But he said the published variations of results for windows such as the tiny difference in the way the light was refracted by the glass in Ms Deb's car and by the glass at the scene should have rung warning bells and led to analysis of more samples.

Mr Ross said he travelled to the Hyundai factory and glass manufacturers in South Korea after determining that car window glass found at Cochranes Road came from the tailgate of a Hyundai Excel X3.

He said he took glass from the road with him on the seven-day trip, and concluded it was highly likely the relevant Hyundai window was made in February, 1997.

Mr Ross said he had concluded within three hours of receiving the window glass on August 19, 1998, that it was probably from a Hyundai Excel.

A metal rod not a police bullet, could have damaged the car allegedly involved in the killings, the jury heard.

The jury watched as a metal rod was put into the boot of a Hyundai identical to that which police say belongs to the daughter of Bendali Debs, one of the two men accused of the murders.

The prosecution had said that a police bullet was the most likely cause of the damage found at the back door frame of the car.

In a court-yard demonstration, forensic scientist Peter Ross showed how difficult, but possible, it would have been for a metal rod to have caused the damage to Nicole Deb's Hyundai.

Mr Ross also said roughly repaired damage to Ms Deb's back door frame was "most likely caused by a bullet."

Forensic scientist, Edward Kennedy-Ripon admitted he wrongly cleared a suspect car from involvement in the murders after examining three bits of shattered glass.

Mr Kennedy-Ripon told the jury he should have compared more than just two pieces of glass from the car with one piece of glass from Cochranes Rd.

"With 20/20 hindsight the sample size was too small to establish a representative refractive index range for both those glasses," Mr Kennedy-Ripon said.

He said another examination about a year later of a lot more glass "brought about a reversal of the opinion I had expressed in the first report and that I was unlikely to now exclude the vehicle OJI (the Debs' Hyundai) as a potential source of the glass at Cochranes Rd".

Under cross-examination by Chris Dane, QC, Mr Kennedy-Ripon admitted his initial examination had not amounted to the "thorough investigation" of a "qualified scientist".

September 17, 2002: Kennedy-Rippon defends "casual arrangements" at storage facility

Mr Edward Kennedy-Ripon, defended the storage of evidence in the murder investigation despite what he said appeared to be a "casual arrangement".

Mr Kennedy-Ripon said glass from the shooting scene at Cochranes Road, Moorabbin, was in a secure environment in December, 1998, when he obtained it for testing.

He said the glass was in vials in his section at the Victoria Forensic Science Centre and he was authorised to examine the glass. 

Mr Kennedy-Ripon agreed with Dane that another scientist involved in the case had not given the glass to him, but knew he would need access to it.

"It sounds a bit like a casual sort of an arrangement, doesn't it?" Mr Kennedy-Ripon said.

September 17, 2002: "Glass found in 2000 was not visible at December 1998 test" - Kennedy-Ripon

Mr Kennedy-Ripon also agreed that glass found in 2000 in the car allegedly at the scene of the Silk-Miller shootings was not visible when he collected glass from it in December, 1998.

But Mr Kennedy-Ripon told prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, it was likely the glass was trapped around the wheel arches of the Hyundai car and freed by the vehicle's normal movement.

September 23, 2002: "Evidence was planted" - Defence

A senior forensic scientist denied that he was part of a conspiracy to plant evidence.

Peter Ross told Chris Dane, QC, he rejected "absolutely" the suggestion that he was party to a "planting".

Mr Ross also denied Mr Dane's suggestion that he could have been manipulated into innocently finding glass or gunshot residue in a car also examined by other scientists.

Earlier, Mr Dane told Mr Ross: "I will put it to you - you were either the instrument of some police officer or officers, or you are working together with the police officers making these findings . . . that the other scientific officers just failed to find."

When Justice Philip Cummins asked Mr Dane what he was alleging, he made the suggestions of conspiracy or manipulation.

Mr Ross also denied police had tampered with glass collected from Cochranes Road where the officers were shot.

He told Mr Dane that police investigating the shootings were escorted in and out of his laboratory.

He said they were not screened or searched to see if they had any glass.

Mr Ross said no one took glass out of the laboratory except when he took fragments to the Hyundai factory in Korea.

"I know because I was present at all times and they did not take any of that glass," he said.

"Nor did they put any glass in. There was no tampering of that exhibit."

Later, Mr Ross said all the evidence he found could be tested and the same results obtained. He told Mr Dane: "It was there. Live with it."

He said he had worked as a forensic officer for 25 years and had been known at the courts as a highly moral and ethical worker. He said in rejecting a proposition that he had been used: "I can't see a way in the world that all of this evidence could have been concocted."

September 26, 2002: Scientist denies police pressure

Detectives investigating the murders were extremely cautious about accepting results and conclusions from forensic tests, a witness said.

Forensic scientist Peter Ross told the murder trial it appeared members of the Lorimer task force wanted to ensure there were no mistakes and that he was confident in his findings.

"I was questioned at length (and) there appeared to be an inordinate desire to understand what I was finding, to question it," Mr Ross told the Supreme Court.

"There was no pressure brought to bear to come up with any specific findings of any sort."

September 30, 2002: Woman says Debs robbed her in March 1998

Tracey Lee Chadwick picked Bandali Michael Debs from a police video as one of two men who robbed an automotive parts store.

The two robbers -- a stocky middle-aged man wearing dark glasses and a shorter, "skinny" younger man wearing a black balaclava and gloves -- held up the store on March 9, 1998.

Ms Chadwick said she was working at Bevic Auto Parts, at Carrum Downs, when she was pushed from behind while near the store's front door.

She said her manager, Ken Pullin, put his hands up and said: "We will do whatever you want."

Ms Chadwick said she saw a man wearing a hat and glasses next to her, and noticed after looking back at Mr Pullin that the man had a gun pointing directly at the side of her head.

She said she saw another man, who was shorter and wearing a balaclava and glasses, as she and Mr Pullin were taken towards an office.

She noticed later that he had a small gun.

Ms Chadwick said Mr Pullin gave the taller man money from a filing cabinet in the office, then went with him to tills at the shop counter.

She said she, Mr Pullin and another employee, Allen Kishere, were tied with tape around their hands and legs after they lay face-down on the office floor.

She said she did not see the men leave, but the last thing said before they left was "Don't move or do anything stupid".

Ms Chadwick said the two offenders were calm and controlled during the robbery.

She said the taller man was middle aged and the shorter man appeared from his agility to be quite young.

Later Ms Chadwick told Mr Rapke she had no doubts about her identification of subject number eight as the man who robbed the store.

The former sales assistant said she had no doubts about identifying the alleged police killer as the robber who had pointed a gun at her head.

Ms Chadwick told the court that she viewed the video of 12 men three times on September 21, 2000, before nominating subject number eight.

Prosecutor Jeremy Rapke, QC, said Mr Debs was number eight in the video.

Ms Chadwick said she had told police after first viewing the video that number eight gave her a "funny feeling in my stomach".

"When I saw it a second time, I said 'number eight gave me that hair-on-the-back-of-the-neck, stomach-doing-somersaults kind of feeling'," she said.

After the third viewing, Ms Chadwick said it was "definitely" number eight.

She told Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, that the man was similar to the robber, but she did not get a close look at him.

October 2, 2002: Witness claims ring

A tiger's claw, a Vietname sailor's ring and a President's mask took centre stage.

Restaurant manager Han Trinh told the jury that one of two gun-toting bandits ripped away a tiger's claw hung around his neck, during a robbery of the Jumbo Chinese restaurant in Blackburn in 1998.

He told the Supreme Court the robbers also took an ornate ring he had long cherished.

Prosecutor Jeremy Rapke QC, told the court police had found the ring and the gold chain buried in the back yard of the NSW home of the mother of Bendali Debs.

Under cross-examination by Chris Dane, QC, for Mr Debs, Mr Trinh said he was sure that both the necklace and the ring found by police were his.

Asked what the tiger's claw was made of, Mr Trinh replied through an interprter: "It's a real Tiger's claw."

"So it's from a real tiger?" Mr Dane asked.

"Yes, because this claw was brought to me by one of my family members in Vietnam," Mr Trinh said.

He said he thought his ring only had artwork on it, not the words "school 1987" engraved on the ring police found.

But under questioning from Mr Rapke, Mr Trinh said his eyesight was too poor to read the ring's inscription.

October 16, 2002: Accused has alibi

One of the accused told investigators he was organising a limousine for his 18th birthday at the time of the killings, the jury heard.

In a taped interview played in the Supreme Court, Jason Roberts said that on the weekend of the shootings he was at the Debs home organising his 18th birthday bash for the next weekend.

Mr Roberts told police he and his girlfriend, Nicole Debs -- his co-accused's eldest daughter -- were "just sorting out for the party".

"We organised the limousine and that and hired it and pitched in and went out afterwards," he told police.

Mr Roberts said about 80 family and friends had attended his 18th and that after midnight "us young ones" jumped in the limousine.

Later in the interview when asked about hiring the car on the night the officers were killed, he said: "Maybe not organising the limousine, but, like the party."

Mr Roberts said it had taken some time to gather the money for hiring the limousine from friends.

"Limousine's expensive. Just had to make sure people were coming . . . had to pitch in," he said.

In the interview taped in July 2000, Mr Roberts told detectives his relationship with Nicole Debs had been "nothing much serious" in 1998, but that it later became much more serious, with them building a house in Cranbourne.